The new Guide sticky thread. Not happy Jan !

[eladan]

A standard disclaimer stating that everything may be wrong is not really very welcoming for a new player.

Not exactly the disclaimer I had in mind... (More that 'Egosoft is not responsible for the information contained...')

If there is a compelling reason that has been missed for keeping out of date guides stickied which can confuse new players, then by all means post the reasoning here. However, maintaining old, inaccurate information will not continue, and certainly not for the sake of just keeping them, keeping the thread going, or for sentimental reasons.

One line of such reasoning is that it's not like guides written for previous versions are completely inaccurate. Most of the content of such guides will still be both relevant and useful, and they often contain information which is not available anywhere else. There aren't many guides which duplicate information - what would be the point? So if you don't have a link for that guide, you lose all the good information with it.

Again, if the authors of out of date guides are still active in the community to update them, then this is fantastic and really good - they'll be stickied as quickly as Graphil can read his PMs.

The problem is with the ifs - I'm sure some people have moved on, or are too busy to update the info.

:EDIT: A Scenario:

A new player comes on the forum and goes to the guides sticky. He reads the standard disclaimer and info that certain guides may contain out of date information. However, he sees the one guide which may contain answers to the five questions he has, which he notes has been written for an older version, and so may contain inaccurate info. He has a look at this guide, and finds answers to the questions he seeks. On subsequent playing, he notices that one of the things he found an answer for doesn't appear to be working the way he expects. So, he goes to the forum, and asks about that feature.

Alternative Scenario.

The same player with the same five questions can't find answers to the questions in the sticky. he then goes and asks (possibly five separate posts) for the info which was in that guide.

I know which scenario makes more sense to me.

[Chestnut Stallion]

*sniff* .. I smell drama...


Honestly.. just update your guides for 2.0 to get them back on the main page..

[apricotslice]

Firstly, thanks for reopening this thread and removing the argument from the sticky. That is partly why I opened a new thread.

The guides were checked where possible and authors have been invited to update them.

My invite has apparently gotten lost in the mail then

The first I heard of this, was discovering it by accident.

All the old guides are still there, no content has been deleted, and so all players will still be able to access them, and the older players who are more likely to use them will also be more likely to know of them.

Yes, but they will never be found by new players unless they in the sticky, since the majority of times, people refer newbies to the sticky thread rather than supply a link direct to the guide they need.

Please include a link to the old locked thread in the new sticky, so people can go look for not-included guide threads. The search system isnt up to finding old guides that no longer are linked.

Its the new player who reads a guide, who is the only one competent to decide if it was useful for them or not. Everyone else, is making judgements on their behalf. Denying them the right to make their own judgement by witholding links just doesnt make sense.

[Computertech]

*sniff* .. I smell drama...


Honestly.. just update your guides for 2.0 to get them back on the main page..

I think you are missing the point. The guides ARE FOR v2 since NOTHING REALLY CHANGED. The guides typically have the plot. Plot HAS NOT CHANGED. or trading, trading has NOT changed. or planting mines, building complexes, etc all HAVE NOT CHANGED. so tell me how a guide that works perfectly for version 2.x is suddenly not valid? About the ONLY GUIDES that would be invalid would be maps (well, not really it's only 2 sectors not really of any use), or ship stats. That's it. other than those few things, (most guides dont have that info in there anyway), the old guides are far better to have linked. there is no confusion since the game HAS NOT CHANGED during versions. Same plot, same trading, same factories, same revelent sectors, etc.

[bp2019]

Will everyone quit complaining, the fact is that the guides are not relevant to the current version, they will only include guides for version 2, and since it is the latest patch, you should be using version 2 as it is.

They removed those not made for version 2 because they cannot sit back adn read all the guides to check if everything is relevant, if the original author of a removed guide is angry, they simply need to read through and ensure it is 2.0 compliant and then re-issue the guide, stop complaining and flaming them for removing guides when it was done to avoid all confusion.

You may say "this guide is relevant this isnt, why was it removed" Well, it was removed because all guides must be checked for compatibility and re-issued, thats the rules, its done that way to be fair and to tidy up the guides page.

Frankly im APPAULED at this thread, and as far as not pre-ordering x4 if there is one on the basis of that is quite dumb frankly, if having a few guides removed puts u off the next X game, then you obviously dont like it that much to begin with.

Im not flaming anyone, nor am i calling anyone stupid, you are ALL welcome to opinions, but know this, if your angry a guide isnt up, try contacting the author of that guide and have them simply re-read and append a new version number to it, its quite simple, dont shoot the messengers...

[Afterburnerz]

Thank You for the work you've done.

I would have shelved X2 and X3 if the Guides had not been created and made readily available.

THANKS!

[geoffrey]

Apricot i know your time at the moment is very limited.
i offered to help earlier and the only way i can think of is to send you 1 of my saved post v2 games after bali gi mission.
you will have nearly everything you require. rank, new ships, hq, credits, sectors, avarice, etc.
it will give you access to all the ships that you have never flown
as you know i can only fight so my trade is only at mogal, but maybe someone else can help with that if needed.
if you choose not to, i will understand after all the flak you have had.

[TBV]

Remember all the fuss when V1.0 was released with the original manual?

It was mostly out of date X2 info. And confusing it certainly was.

So a cynical person might say that inaccurate information is only acceptable when meeting deadlines.

My invite has apparently gotten lost in the mail then

The first I heard of this, was discovering it by accident.

I suspect if it weren't for this most unfortunate incident, this thread would not exist.

Its the new player who reads a guide, who is the only one competent to decide if it was useful for them or not.

I wasn't a new player when you wrote your guides, but I still enjoyed reading them.

[adonai]

Hello all! I've been playing X3 for an age now without internet connection, (Dark Ages) and I have a couple of comments regarding this debate.

First off X3 is huge, huge beyond the limited manual provided and any meaningful information on these forums. The guides provided are for the most part limited in what they actually cover with regard X3, but that doesnt mean they are worthless or disposable.

I commend the guide writers on all the subjects for at least attempting to bring knowledge to the community. I really believe you are at least filling a void that not only is necessary but is also an area that for X4 I believe Egosoft needs to pay far more attention.

I believe its very difficult for the average gamer to access X3 based purely on the amount of information that can be gathered easily and understood. More over, much of the information is filler, so when you are looking for a specific piece of information, the current guides in some respects disable quick reference of critical information. For the most part information is distorted by commentary.

Yet the key issue in this debate is whether or not its better to have something over nothing. I think clearly it is better to have something when you are dealing with a game that has the scope of X3. The guide writers need to be thanked for the work that they have done in the past for the community, and also encouraged and supported to do work for the community in the future.

Perhaps the immediate fix for this debate could be an archived sticky, which still lists all the work that has gone before, but may not be currently relevant in total, with regard the current version of X3.

I believe one of the key resolutions that should come out of this debate is respecting the past community and their great works while empowering the future community both regarding X3 needs today and streamlining the community content with relevant information for X4.

Developers and community advocates both past and present should take a step back to regain perspective on why you are here and what has motivated your actions in the past and present.

I hope X4 realizes the rich promise of X3, specially considering the continuing rarity od such a title in todays disposable console market.

[Player.]

apricotslice, one of the reasons why some guides werent included is beacuse they might confuse newbies, if someone suddenly encounters an Eclipse he would go to a 1.4 guide to look up on it and would not find a thing.

Your "Mapping Service Guide to starting off in X3" has a section that lists abandond ships and it doesnt list the new

Spoiler

Show

Starburst in Freedom's Reach

that was added in 2.0.2, this is one reason why it wasnt included

Edit: same thing for

Spoiler

Show

hidden CIG crates

We cannot ignore parts of a guide, if the guide was only about the plot then it would be up to date but since it contains outdated info about other things as well it cannot be included

[BlackRazor]

Remember all the fuss when V1.0 was released with the original manual?

It was mostly out of date X2 info. And confusing it certainly was.

So a cynical person might say that inaccurate information is only acceptable when meeting deadlines.

Or a cynical person might say that outdated information is good when it comes form the community and bad when it comes form Egosoft, so? No coherence ? If you complained about Egosoft releasing outdated information why shouldn't you complain about outdated guides ? Outdated information is outdated information, wherever it comes from, wouldn't you say ?

[Dunners]

I have just spent the last day picking up all the toys you lot have thrown out of your cot.

Put life into persepective, a few guides have been removed, or should I say put somewhere else that can ber easily accessed.

Get over it.